Well, we do keep a big private collection that contains almost all publications by now ^^ Just give me a list of the books you need and an address/Discord ID/similar private channel so as to not share the links publicly, and I'll get them to you asap
The ones in Italics should be the droids you're looking for ^^ Where do I send you the links? If you joined our Discord channel I could share these files almost instantly and you could get in touch quickly with the other admins and mods ^^
I was wondering if I could get admin/Beurocrat rights so that I'm not locked out of renaming certain pages and deleting things. I'm currently trying to organize the pages that already exist so as to help guide people through the site and its difficult to do that without those rights (also means if I make a mistake like creating a page or image I didn't need then I'd have to ask you guys for help rather than fixing it myself).
As I understand it, to get these rights I have to ask one of the already existing admins correct?
I'm trying to tidy up the Norscan/Chaos part of the Wiki and I noticed contradictory info.
Aeslings apparently don't keep slaves, but in the Trivia section it says they used slaves to build a mine on the coast. Is this a contradictory statement? I've not read the book so I'm not sure whats going on there.
also, why are there png files listed in the empire section next to the articles? are they waiting to be put somewhere? and is there a reason that the Wiki tends to not list End Times stuff? alot of characters wiki pages don't discuss the End Times at all. Is this intentional?
Hey there, I only just got your message now, I hope this is the appropriate way to contact you >_<
I've been doing alot of work for the Total War Warhammer Forums for about a year now, searching for what could be implemented into the game, how they could improve the game, etc.
While working on all that I found, I noticed that the biggest issue in the Warhammer community (the cause of alot of misinformation and arguments) was a lack of direct sources. Even Mathias Eliasson Army Books and all of the fan-made 9th edition army books were mostly accurate, but because they never cited their sources, no one believes them.
I wanted to change that and make sure the community knows exactly what is and isn't legit. So since I've already been doing all the research and I noticed some of it wasn't on the Wiki I figured I'd lend a hand :)
I was just wondering If what I've been working on is up to snuff for the wiki? and if there's a way I could maybe talk to some of you about sharing notes and stuff like that?
Aresius asked me to respond to you, because I've been slightly more active here recently, or something. I looked over your contributions and they're pretty much up to snuff. I only have a few minor quibbles.
1) I definitely appreciate that you cite your sources. However, if you have multiple paragraphs in a row from the same source, you should put the citation at the end of every paragraph.
2) On a page like Karra Lakota that's split into multiple sections, you should put a brief summary before the first header. It doesn't have to be long, just one or two sentences saying what the article's about.
I also have a question. I notice you cite something called "Town Cryer" on a few pages. What is that? I've never heard of that publication.
In any case, thank you for your contributions to the wiki and for reaching out. I hope you continue to add content!
Yeah I wasn't too sure on the paragraph thing. I figured putting it at the end of every section would suffice but I did notice that it seemed standard procedure to put it at the end of every paragraph, I'll do that from now on.
Sorry about Karra's page, I am aware that you usually want to summarise it before getting into the lore, at the very start of her story it sort of sums it up a little where it says 'her life was coloured by laziness' and all that. You're right though I should have added it all the same.
This is Town Cryer Its the Magazine that came along with Mordheim in 6th edition and its the source of some of the Amazons lore, the sisters of Sigmar, Executioner Veskit and a fair few other things. I asked the TWWH forums community a while ago whether or not its credible (thought it might be like the Citadel Journal, which was fan-made) but virtually everyone said it was, including someone called "Nelthael" who said they worked on this wiki. But if you know otherwise let me know.
Hey Peter (and Aresius if you're there) I was wondering if you could perhaps help me out finding some sources.
I'm looking for anything and everything on "El Cadavo" a Disgraced Tilean Mercenary.
I'm creating the lore page for the settlement "Cadavo" right now and I figured the character would be just a throw away, but I remember hearing about him in several other places and seeing his name. Hes mentioned in a fair few Dogs of War adds, in the backstory for the Alcatani Fellowship and I'm sure I read somewhere that he had an engagement with Mazdamundi, where his men are all killed and hung from trees to make an example of them.
Might be in the Dogs of War book, Town Cryer, the Lustria Campaign, etc. I'm having a fish around, just wanted to throw it out there incase you know something I don't :)
Ah Ha! I finally found the damn thing, that was driving me crazy. He's mentioned in the Lustria Campaign, Maz didn't just level the settlement he also slaughtered El Cadavo's men in a battle in the jungle, hanging all their corpses up as a warning.
Think I've got everything I need now. If you ever need any help finding stuff for Lustria, Lizardmen, Amazons or anything from White Dwarf just give me a shout, I'd be more than willing to give you a hand :)
Pg. 54: El Cadavo throws Roderigo Delmonte into poverty.
Pg. 72: El Cadavo arrives at Lustria and tries to impress the Lizardmen with baubles, then shoots a cannon to show force, and finally shits himself upon witnessing a natural solar eclipse "invoked" by the Lizardmen.
Pg. 75: Fleugweiner Sonderblitz departs Wilderheim to join El Cadavo's expedition at Miragliano.
Pg. 80: Letter from Fleugweiner about rivalry between El Cadavo and Emelio Cornelius.
There's another short story where Fleugweiner is the only survivor of his expedition, but since it seems he joined Cornelius' expedition it shouldn't be relevant
Hey Aresius, I noticed you changed alot about the El Cadavo page
damn that was a good find with the picture, I almost didn't notice the Flag, I just thought you'd used the basic Mercenary General image aha.
I noticed you changed the page from a transcription to more of an account of the lore, I wrote it down as it was written and tried to reword a little here and cut down a little there, but you've wen't more for a clean recitement of what happened, cutting out alot of the context.
Is that what we're striving to do? I do see the appeal of this more neat and easily digestable format, but at the same time, entire characters and the mood of the text which gives you an idea of the events and Cadavo himself, can end up being absent or diminished.
The reason I bring this up is because there are other wiki pages like with Marcel d'Parravon, where what exists on the wiki is a cut and dry summery of the lore events and I was thinking of changing it to include more context.
Which is preferable? because I feel alot can be lost in the cut and dry approach and from a readers perspective, I think it might be better to keep the text as faithful as possible so they get what GW had in mind and are more likely to be captivated by the text as we were when we read it and then wrote it down.
Another Example would be Mazdamundi. A very old and important character, yet I was struck by how small his wiki page is. Would it not be benificial to readers if we added in alot of the caviats about his arrival being fortold in the prophaces and about the exploits he's been on? even if we risk slightly drowning the readers in prose?
Another thing I'd comment on is the dates and Cannon conflicts.
I beleive they misspoke when they said it was knocked down and rebuilt 3 times and when they said he destroyed the settlement with an earthquake 3 times, the line about "being disturbed 3 times in one decade" shows the 3rd was the last and the talks of the final earthquake note how it shattered the very foundations of the settlement and so on. This discription would be needless if it hadn't been a unique event and I doubt the people would have returned if the whole place was rubble and bloody pulps.
In the 6th edition timeline it says:
"1444IC El cadavo, adventurer and sometime pirate, founds the port of Cadavo on his third attept to penetrate the jungles. The town is destroyed under the order of the Slann mage priest mazdamundi 3 times, each time being rebuilt. A devistating earthquake ensures that the town is finally abandoned. It is rumoured that El Cadavo, having escaped by ship wit lustrian treasures is lost at sea due to deadly weather conditions"
As we can see in this excerpt, It says this is his 3rd attempt, then says maz destroyed it 3 times, each time being rebuilt.
8th edition might be the most "up to date" source on stories like this, but 8th edition also leaves out alot of the original stories, almost acting like a brief summery of the stories so as to confirm they're still cannon rather than recite them all again (like with "The Nether Thing" the story is butchered in 8th and it makes characters seem stupid because it retells the story without alot of context)
Also, you mentioned him not being in 5th edition? I beleive its just his settlement that's in 5th edition on the map, that was a mistake on my part since I created both pages at the same time, sorry about that.
"I noticed you changed the page from a transcription to more of an account of the lore [...] Is that what we're striving to do?" - Well, yes, we're an encyclopaedia of sorts. If you read Wikipedia's page on, say, Christopher Columbus, you see a summary of his life and deeds, not a full transcription of his travelling diary, letters to the Spanish Kings, etc. What we do over at the Spanish wikis is to make separate articles for specific short stories like the one where Cadavo arrives to (and flees from) Lustria. But that has never been done in this wiki, so it'd have to be decided by the main English admins, like MrParaduo and Grey Knight Dante. Nevertheless, I tried to convey his personality through the quoted dialogues minus the narration bits.
"Mazdamundi. A very old and important character, yet I was struck by how small his wiki page is" - Yeah, his article does focus on his "character data sheet" from the Armybooks, but might be enlarged by adding summarized references to all his known actions, like I did with El Cadavo. This, however, requires checking a lot more sources and finding what fits and what doesn't.
"dates and Cannon conflicts" - First off, the only book that mentions more than one earthquake is Lustria. Since the previous Armybook and the two following ones say it was Big Mazzy's armies who razed the port, it's clear someone at GW made a blunder in that one source. As for the number of destructions and rebuildings, that same excerpt you quote does say "The town is destroyed... three times, each time being rebuilt", so the final earthquake means there was a Cadavo 4 that was utterly crushed by Mazdamundi as a full stop to its history. I believe they got their wires a bit crossed when they wrote these paragraphs and the mistake was copied down the line with each edition - but it's not our job to correct their mistake unless we have enough evidence to show the retcon didn't stick (as in the case of the number of earthquakes), just to point them out when we find them.
"I believe his first encoursion was 1441 and his last was 1444." - Or it might have taken longer for each expedition to gather money and forces, sail there, settle down, be beaten, sail back, lick their wounds and restart the process. Since we don't have any official dates beyond the "three times in a decade" reference, we can't presume anything beyond "the expeditions ended in 1944 so they must have begun in 1934 at the earliest".
"Also, you mentioned him not being in 5th edition?" - There were only four Lizardmen armybooks: 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th Eds. In 5th Ed, page 11, there are no human settlements marked in the B/W map, and in the color one in page 105 the only human colony marked is Skeggi. Plus no references in the text to Cadavo, as far as I could see. If you can tell me in which page it shows up, it can be added, it's no problem ^^
I Agree that it was a blunder to say the Earthquake happened 3 times.
You quote what I sent you, but that's part of my point. If you zone in on that one bit you might get confused, but if you zone out and look at the whole quote and then go read all the other stuff as well where its been recorded and rerecorded, you start to see that "Destroyed 3 times and rebuit 3 times" was almost certainly GW getting a bit to flavourful with their language and thus miscommunicating what they meant.
You say 'its not your job to correct their mistake' but I disagree for a few reasons.
First of all, the way you rewrote the page was mostly diverging from what they wrote in the sources, with you rephrasing a few things and even talking past the text to the reader to say "this might not be true" "we dont know what happened here" etc.
This is not a critisizm, im just trying to point out that if they made a mistake (which they often do, especially in older editions) then its better for the readers understanding if we bring the pieces together and try to present the most accurate and coherent narrative we possibly can.
Its kind of worse to leave a mistake in and then add a section where you retroactively acknowledge it than it would be to simply pull from the other sources (some of which are newer and therefore could pass as more official) and just keep the mistake out.
Some people might not read the last little section, and so they might come away wth a false impression of what happened.
Considering we know based on the map and all the other sources that the settlement is defo destroyed in the cannon, Its just a poorly worded phrase that doesn't bear mentioning imo.
As for the dates, they looked wrong to me but I couldn't find where I saw the "1441" reference anyway so you're right until we find something to the contrary.
This map is what I was referincing but I double checked and Believe its from 6th edition. My mistake:
Finally: Cadavo alledgedly survived and ive seen second hand sources saying he returned to sartosa. Perhaps there was a 4th and final expredition but we've seen no evidence of it and so, for now, we might as well be true to the story we have and keep it at 3 without mentioning the issue (again, sources before and after don't seem to mention this, correct? so It seems more like a mistake for now).
Okay, I've just seen you've reverted my edits and rewritten the article, so I'll have to point out what's wrong with it point by point. My tone will sound harsh, because I don't like what just happened, but do take it as constructive teachings to improve your style. I understand from your messages that you want to do a good job of this as much as I do, so please pay heed to these notes:
First off, stop rewriting literal quotes in your own style. You have to copy what the characters say in the book, otherwise you're faking them and their tone. Ie, adding "the famous freebooter father had me seek out in Miragliano?!" in the middle of Sonderblitz's quote, or the "to find their fortune at last, or die trying" line, which isn't in any of the books.
Check your orthography, specially but not at all exclusively with Warhammer-specific terms, like "Alcatani" (wtf is Alcitanni), "Amazonian" (the race is called Amazons, there's no Amazonia here) or "Cadavo" (Cabado??). Also, "usurer" is a very different word from "usurper". That's why not being careful when copying and writing can be dangerous.
You do not need to highlight every name with bold lettering. Just the first time at the start of the article is more than enough.
90% of the "Origins" section is your own idea, and is not supported by existing sources. We just know Cadavo's men razed Delmonte's orchards, nothing else about his reputation, his usual MO, etc. Plus, I set the events in the order they appeared in the book: first Alcatani, then the eclipse, then the fight with Topolino. We have no evidence to show the order was any difference so this is the safest course.
We do not know exactly when he first visited Lustria. We only know that sometime in the decade before 1944 he built his first settlement, and since he ran away in the short story that need not be the same event at all. Besides, as I said above, he might have prepared for the Southlands between his first visit and his first settlement, so who knows how long it took between both events. If you need to add dates to a paragraph that originally didn't have them, cite their specific sources right next to them, as they're usually in a different page.
About "talking past the reader", it's alright to say we don't know how some open-ended plotline ended. In Calard d'Garamont, for example, the last novel ends with a final duel whose ending we never learn - but since Calard is alive in The End Times, he must have won. In the same way, we know Cadavo was getting ready to go to the Southlands, not how it went, so adding a line with no citations is fine as a clarification of why we leave that story unfinished.
As for canon conflicts, you've done exactly the opposite of what you intended. You've given a definite number ("three separate occasions", "his 3rd expedition") and deleted the disclaimer where (even if readers don't care) we explain what GW messed up. It's far safer, and more professional, to say "at least three" and then explain what's wrong in footnotes like the Canon Conflicts section - because someone could come up with WHC: Lustria and say "hey, you got it wrong, this book says otherwise!"
The same way we can't say for sure when Cadavo began his expeditions until some source gives us evidence for an exact date, we can't add "He's finally found by a passing vessel and returned at last to Sartosa" without a source that supports that claim.
And last, but not least, what the hell is "Hoteks Column". None of the books mention it, the monument is always called "Obsidian Column" and it's marked like that in both 6th and 8th Ed maps. Again, adapting the style to match a past-tense, encyclopaedic summary is one thing, making up your own material is another. Better to check twice before posting than making others clean up after you.
PS: The note on Zlaaq could probably work better at Mazdamundi's own article, when you work on adding events and such to it ^^
1. When you say Quotes do you mean "Quotes" or general pieces of lore?
If its the former, I was just trying to make it more readable and fluent by adding the names of who was speaking or slightly adding in content exists elsewhere to frame it better.
If you mean the latter, again, I'm mostly just trying to make it as readable and fluent as possible. Sometimes GW seriously goes overboard or overwrites it to the point where even I struggle to understand them.
Other times I'm just trying to lay out the events as they happen. Somethines they write non-lineirly and dart back and forth.
I don't think I changed anything to the point where its no longer faithful, surely thats ok? I should also mention that you do this too, arguably more than me in some cases.
2. I appologise if I misspelled anything, I often return to double check so I will fix them. as for "Amazonians", Amazons is the name of the race, and the name of a river, "an amazonian" is a person of said race. I suppose I could have said "a woman of the amazon" but then, wouldn't that conflict with your complaint No.1?
3. thats a subjective point and it looks alot better on mobile IMO. I use bold to point to someone or something of importance that either doesn't have a page yet or is the name of the person/thing the page is about. if thats not policy then I would argue it should be.
4. No its not, its from the Alcitani backstory. I would not simply make stuff up, I took the direct quote of what he did to alcitani and expanded it to its logical conclusion. He lead scorched earth campaigns throught tilea and had a rivalry with other nobles as mentioned later. That's not made up, thats me explaining what happens.
5. I was using your material there where you said "somewhere between the 1430s-40s.
6. I agree with you, Like I said before, this is not a critizism Im leavying against you, I'm merely trying to point out how you are critisizing me for doing things akin to that when you do it yourself. I'm not making stuff up I'm merely trying to talk past the text or work the stories in order as you have done yourself.
7. I did not to the exact opposite of what I intended, I have basically copy pasted what it says in sources other than the one that is contradictory.
9. Sorry I named that Incorectly. Hoteks column is a Dark Elf settlement I think. Let me make the proper adjustments.
Following the guidelines given in this this blog: The best possible local navigation bar, I would like to propose the following changes to the top-level navigation to make it more reader-centric. The changes are itemized below, but it might be easier if you edit the MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation page and replace the contents with the code block at the bottom and then use the Preview feature to test it out (just don't accidentally save the changes).
Move "Timeline" from under History to the second level, rename to "Timelines", link it to the category, and put links to 10 of the timeline articles under it (Beastmen, Elves, Lizardmen etc)
Leave Heroes as it is? You can choose up to 10 here but it currently displays only the seven most popular (again, possibly incorrect)
Under Geography, replace these with links to articles and categories of large geographical area or importance. (Having two "Old World" links is confusing.)
Change Videogames to link to the category and remove the "more games" entry that links there now.
Leave Races as is, it's great.
Change "Want to help us?" to "Community" and link it to Special:Community which is designed for this purpose.
Remove the obsolete (yes?) Moderator Elections announcement.
Consider moving the "Join the Crusade!" blog page to the section of Special:Community designed for it.
Remove "Fill in the gaps" and "Write new articles" because these are covered by the Speical:Community page or the Add New Page button.
Consider moving Add Sources to Special:Community as well
Fix the broken links to the other wikis (done below)
Move the Forum links under the Community tab and rename it to "Old Forums"
This frees up an entire 7x10 navigation menu for additional links to important content as you see fit. Of course, feel free to substitute better or more appropriate pages or categories. I just picked ones that made sense to me.
* Warhammer World|The World
** category:History|Historical events
*** Age of Three Emperors
*** Grand Ball of Sigridschlosse
*** Night of a Thousand Arcane Duels
*** Night of the Black Waltz
*** Night of the Restless Dead
*** Plunder in the Jungle
*** Scandal of the Shroud
*** Winter of Woe
*** Year of Woe
*** Bretonnian Timeline|Bretonia
*** Dwarf Timeline|Dwarves
*** Annals of the Black Tower|Dark Elves
*** Book of Days|Elves
*** Greenskin Timeline|Greenskins
*** Imperial Timeline|Humans
*** Chronicles of the Lizardmen|Lizardmen
*** Skaven Timeline|Skaven
*** Vampire Timeline|Vampires
*** Wood Elf Timeline|Wood Elves
*** Chaos Wastes
*** category:Eastern Lands|Eastern Lands
*** category:New World|New World
*** category:Old World|Old World
*** category:Mystical Realms|Mystical Realms
*** #category# Age of Reckoning|Warhammer: Age of Reckoning
*** Warhammer: The End Times - Vermintide|Vermintide
*** Warhammer: Vermintide II|Vermintide II
*** Total War: Warhammer
*** Total War: Warhammer II
** #|Specialist Games
*** #category# Mordheim
*** #category# Dreadfleet
** #|Forces of Order
*** #category# The Empire|Empire
*** #category# Bretonnia|Bretonnia
*** #category# Dwarf|Dwarfs
*** #category# High Elves|High Elves
*** #category# Wood Elves|Wood Elves
*** #category# Lizardmen|Lizardmen
** Forces of Chaos
*** #category# Daemons|Daemons
*** #category# Warriors of Chaos|Hordes of Chaos
*** #category# Beastmen|Beastmen
*** #category# Skaven|Skaven
*** #category# Chaos Dwarf|Chaos Dwarfs
** #|Forces of Destruction
*** #category# Greenskins|Greenskins
*** #category# Dark Elves|Dark Elves
*** #category# Ogre Kingdoms|Ogre Kingdoms
** #|Forces of Death
*** #category# Vampire Counts|Vampire Counts
*** #category# Tomb Kings|Tomb Kings
** User Blog:Aresius King/First Crusade of the Hammer - Users assemble|Join the Crusade!
** #category# Sourceless|Add sources!
** Special:Forum|Old Forum
*** Board:Guidelines_and_Rules|Guidelines & Rules
*** Board:News_and_Announcements|News & Announcements
*** Board:Fun_and_Games|Fun & Games
** #|Our wikis
*** https://ageofsigmar.fandom.com/wiki/Special:WikiActivity|Age of Sigmar [ENG]
*** https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/es/wiki/Especial:WikiActivity|WH Fantasy [SPA]
*** https://ageofsigmar.fandom.com/es/wiki/Especial:WikiActivity|Age of Sigmar [SPA]
*** https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/es/wiki/Eswiki/Especial:WikiActivity|WH 40k [SPA]
Gotcha. Did you tell this to MrParaduo already? Either case I'm asking him to have a look at your suggestions ^^ Most of these I agree, some I think should be discussed, specially on the usefulness/visibility of Special:Community instead of the main navigation bar...
The old style infoboxes do not display well on all devices, so this new one will look just like the old one and should work on all phones. I just continued the work started by Grey Knight Dante a while back and finished the conversion.
The second demo I did just for fun so it would match the other boxes on the wiki, but the fancy border gets stripped off on some mobile devices so it's not a serious option (unless you want it to be :D )
Hi! My name is Moviesign, and I’m the Fandom Wiki Manager for Warhammer Wiki. I am here to help the community and be a liaison to full-time Fandom staff. If you ever have a question or issue relating to the wiki, editing, styling, templates, etc., please contact me on my message wall / talk page. —Moviesign (talk) 18:46, May 7, 2019 (UTC)
I am currently working and going to school and I've tried to get back to finish the End TImes pages, but the last part of the page is simply too much for me. Do you think you can assign someone to finish it? As far as consistency goes, the only thing the guy has to do is to simply summarize (as much as possible) the last book End Times: Archaon into the last section of the page. I've categorized everything in the proper timeline from start to finish so there is no longer any book that overlaps in terms of timeline.
If you can get someone to do it, that would be really helpful. I'll probably stop by and tidy it up when its finished. Best wishes.